My 10 year old daughter has been shooting either bb or air rifles since age 4. She loves it. In the last couple years she has progressed to a S&W m&p15/22 and a m&p.22 compact pistol. Now that she has an ingrained fundamental understanding of safe/effective weapon manipulation and utilization of open sights, I think it's long past time she progress to optical sights and begin to build a skill base for long range applications.
In order to facilitate this, I'm going to have to learn quite a bit myself(big grin). My plan is to pick up an SWFA 10x SS for my 5.56 AR, because I can more easily afford to shoot it than my old .264 win mag hunting rifle. This scope can later be transferred to a future 6.5 creedmoor that we can both use when she gets a bit bigger and is ready to progress.
I would like to find a scope that I can mount on either her m&p15/22, or to a dusty old .22wmr bolt gun that I've had waiting for her. Ideally this scope would facilitate her and I to progress side by side through a low budget father-daughter "Sniper 101" learning odyssey over the next couple/few years until she's ready for the 5.56. I think she's at just the right age that learning to construct and utilize charts and tables will be a very worthwhile and enriching endeavor.
So, with all that being said, is there a scope out there that is less expensive than the SWFA, that would be particularly well suited to filling this role? Something that has turrets that will actually track with some amount of precision and repeatability if not asked to hold up to centerfire recoil? Would it be smarter to just get her something like a $100 fixed 6x primary arms with dedicated .22 BDC and let her learn hold overs and hold offs with a reticle? There is a lot to be said for that skillset, but it doesn't encourage the math, documentation, analysis, etc. that comes with dialing in firing solutions.
This wouldn't be such an issue, but my budget is tight lately, as I'm currently a full-time student at a trade school. I'm going to have to sell stuff to afford the glass, mounts, and ammo to pull all this off this summer, but I really think now is the time. Before she's a teenager and only want's to hang with her friends.
Any and all ideas or advice from the forum would be genuinely appreciated.
I bought a Vector Optics 10x44mm Marksman for my 22lr Ruger 10/22 from AliExpress one year ago.
It has mrad reticle and .1mrad turrets. And as it is fixed magnification, the second focal plane reticle is not a problem.
I think it could be good enough for your use.
If you keep a close eye on the sniper's hide Optics Px, or maybe sniperforums classifieds you can usually find a used SWFA for a bit less. SWFA also sometimes sells demo models on a different website, though I dont see the SS scopes on there too often. I know someone who picked up one for about 100 bucks off on ebay because it was painted. Primary arms 6x 22lr bdc looks like its going for about 119.
I don't know if I would worry too much about the specifics of trajectory and drop with a ten year old, though knowing that bullet drops a little at different distances would set a great foundation.
But I for sure think the bolt gun would be helpful. I learned on a 10/22, and it was just too tempting to shoot again if I missed without taking fundamentals into consideration, especially if I was hunting squirrels or rabbits and the adrenaline kicks in.
Thank's Plissken. I'm not sure why it never occurred to me that certain of those forums might have a large enough representation of SWFA scope users to have a reasonable chance of finding one used. I suppose they hold their value well due to the no questions asked transferable lifetime warranty. It makes for a little less anxiety about buying used.
I know it might sound weird expecting a 10 year old to learn about trajectories and firing solutions, but she's been shooting for so long now that I'm sure she'll be quite excited for this new challenge. She can already run her .22 AR clone like a boss with just the iron sights. I wanted her to have the ability to use iron sights ingrained to the point of unconscious competence, which is why I've waited this long for optics. She has the AR manual of arms down cold already, which is why I decided to get her that particular rifle vs a bolt gun to start with. Did my best to inculcate methodologies from Pat Rogers, Pat McNamara and Paul Howe right out of the gate. Just didn't frame it in a combatives context. Tried to always keep it fun, but also relevant toward other serious applications in the future. I'm surprised at how good this worked. Never pushed her either.
Rex and company were talking about something similar on the Podcast recently. He seemed to be of the opinion that children today seldom learn the real world application of adult skills at a young age compared to generations past. Modern educational paradigm steers them away from immersion into hands on experiential one-on-one learning of adult skills from "tribal elders" in favor of a more sterile and detached education that is safer for a large group of clones to process through. This is partly why I want to get her using math, reading, writing, communication and analytical skills out on the shooting range and in the countryside(we live rurally).
When I remember to treat her as more of an equal, perhaps like a colleague rather than always as a child, with the expectation that she's fully capable of learning to do anything that I am capable of, it seems to work extremely well for her. Both for her ability to learn new things, but also to develop responsibility and self esteem.
Good deal! You know better than I do what she is ready for. I must admit that I don't have a lot of experience with ten year old girls. I just pictured in my head that she might decide playing with dolls is a better use of her time than drawing up charts and adjusting for various distances. I strongly agree, it is extremely harmful to limit someone based on their age, and expecting them to behave like a child until 18 or 20 something years old!
FrozenTundra,
Check this one out:
http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/950843/bushnell-elite-3200-tactical-rifle-scope-10x-40mm-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Optics+-+Scopes+-+Under+12X-_-Bushnell-_-950843&gclid=CK6L1df6wtICFROewAodCPAMQw
I have the older version of this which is MOA/MIL. Bought it new from SWFA probably 10+ years ago. Rex mentions this one in the 101 series I think. For just under $200 you can't beat it. Glass is surprisingly good for the price. Much better than the "box store" scopes, but obviously not Tier 2. Mine tracks well and has never failed to return to zero. Even with vigorous twisting of the turrets. It currently resides atop my Rem 700 30-06 that I have put together with a 22" bull barrel until I can afford some Tier 2 or better glass. While not ideal, it's performing admirably for what it is. I would not HESITATE to buy one for your application.