A conversation on scopes

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On of the guys in a group I train with posted on Facebook yesterday about a deal he found on a scope. Here's the thread, with first initials to protect their privacy, sort of... D Crockett Just FYI, Midway USA Vortex Viper 1-4X24 349.99 with free shipping. Regular 599.99, msrp $629. I think that's about the best price you're going to see on these. They're discontinued by Vortex but have the lifetime warranty. Comments R Rivero I like the reticle in the Viper PST 1-4 personally. D Cockett I like/dislike the reticle on my Leupold 1-4. I really like the green Firedot a lot. My gripe there is only the center dot is illuminated, not any of the mil dots or the rest of the reticle. So for longer ranges and hold overs it's less than ideal in the dark. At the night shoot however my load was flat-shooting enough (with a 50yd zero) to hold center of target out to 275, and guestimate a small hold-over at 300. The other thing I think is kinda weird is the mil dots are spaced 2.5 mils. This Viper PST has a MOA reticle so I'll see how that compares. D Crockett Told my wife I bought this and she said a bunch of stuff in Chinese. If I keep buying all these 400 dollar scopes, I'm never gonna get my Nightforce. Geoff Glover I had the Leupold 1-4 Mark AR with the green Firedot. I sold it after they failed to fix it when the dot would go out under the recoil of my 300 BLK. That 2.5 mils is only accurate at 4X and I can't imagine trying to get an accurate range estimate with the hash marks that far apart. My suggestion is to hold off buying another scope until you can buy the Nightforce. That way, you'll only cry once more, and your wife will only swear at you in Chinese once more-or at least only once more for buying a scope!😉 X Giovanna And it's all Chinese to me! D Crockett I hope the following may help someone, after I so enthusiastically posted this thread about the “bargain” price. Geoff Glover was right, I should have held off but I had already ordered it. I usually don't buy optics on the internet. I like to see exactly what I'm getting. In this case however, given the rave reviews all across the interwebz, I felt safe given the cheap price. Even at $350 though I'm not impressed. I'm sure glad I didn't pay full price. In that case I would definitely return it. It's probably worth what I paid for it though. There's things I like but you can simply watch the reviews people have put up on the net to see the “plus”points. I have two “minus” points which I haven't seen mentioned in any of the reviews. First: admittedly this is the first low power 30MM scope I've owned and maybe my expectation was too high but I was really surprised at the amount of distortion on the lower powers. I'd estimate nearly 85% of the field of view is susceptible to major distortion as you move your eye around the eye box...as in headache/motion sickness distortion. It's nearly gone at 4X and once I actually mounted it to the rifle and got a decent cheek weld, it's tolerable even at the low powers but my Leupold has much less distortion (not an apples to apples comparison as the Leupold has a 1 inch tube, smaller objective and the lowest magnification is 1.5X instaed of 1X). The second point is with the illumination. The center dot, four segment ring and the horizontal scale seem to light up just fine, with the MOA tics and corresponding numbers all visible and usable. The vertical scale is a different story; the line is barely visible, the numbers barely so and the tics do not light up at all. The way that light is projected onto the reticle, it leaves the vertical scale in the dark. So much for long range hold-overs in poorly lit conditions. The last thing is not really a “minus point” but more of an observation. I saw many reviews that claimed this scope was exceptionally bright and clear, rivaling scopes costing much more. Well, not so much. It's certainly OK but I don't think it is exceptional. Just on par with with others in the price range that I'm familiar with. I'll shoot it for a while and see if it grows on me, then decide what to do with it. Geoff Glover D. Crockett Thanks for sharing! IM(not so)HO, there are two major flaws in the optics business that I've found in the little over a year I've been using magnified optics. The first being "fanboys" who claim a product is the cat's meow in one breath, and in the next say that even if the scope is jacked up, company X will fix it right away. There seem to be legions who swear by a company just because company X has a great warranty. This appears mostly to apply to what Tiborasaurus Rex refers to as "Tier 3" or "sporting" optics. The bigger problem as I see it, is where in the world do you find several upper "Tier 2" or "Tier 1" optics that you can compare side-by-side? I really like my IOR Valdada, but I had to take a leap of faith on the opinions of two people I found on the internet(one of whom turned out to be a dealer for Valdada). Looking through someone else's scoop is a good way to compare, but what do you do when there is no one else around, as is usually the case when I go to the range? R Rivero There was a time where the only decent low priced 1-3x magnified optic came from Leupold in their CQ/T. It was 1K and not a true 1x. The Vortex Viper is a descent glass for the $$ but the only way to know for sure is to shoot a lot of optics and find the one that has the compromises in the right place for your application. Used Optics trading is a great hobby to get into... LOL! D Crockett Yeah the Viper is not bad, I don't mean to imply that and actually I may wind up liking it a lot, I just had, well really the one biggest disappointment, the illumination-that's an issue with my Leupold which I hoped this one would overcome. R Rivero illunination in magnified optics needs to be used in low light to be appreciated. D Crockett R Rivero So far tried it in a windowless room with the lights off...but we'll see how it performs in the real world. D Crockett Hey X Giovanna; R.R says "Used optics trading is a good hobby to get into." I agree. How about a brand new Vortex Viper for your ACOG? X Giovanna How about NO! D Crockett Aw where's the team spirit? Geoff Glover R Rivero Besides scouring the interwebs looking for optics, where does one find high quality scopes to compare side-by-side? I've seen more people posting used scopes for sale, claiming that they have very few to no rounds fired on the rifle they were intended for. Did they pick the wrong scope for their application, or are they trying to unload their lemon, I wonder. D Crockett I've never really seen the high end stuff in stores locally. Cabela's Avon has some Nightforce SHVs but I don't think I've seen the NSX or higher there. Also some Leupold MK4s and VX-6 but don't quote me on that. CMP North had a Nightforce something, either the BEAST or the ATACR. That was an impressive scope. R Rivero Geoff Glover at shooting events. Classes and competitions. Geoff Glover I'll be in the market for a bolt action rifle next year, most likely something in 6.5 Creedmoor for long range target shooting. My IOR should be good out to 1200 yards or more, which is beyond the range of my .308. The argument I'm having with myself is, "buy another high quality scope-with the expense-or move what I have between rifles and worry about how much my zero may shift"? If I do buy another scope,which one and which rifle do I put it one? Damn, it sucks having been born with a plastic spork in my mouth! Geoff Glover R Rivero Thanks, young man! Geoff Glover Not for those of us who want to spend money on reloading components and training! Besides, I'm not so good at horse trading and seem to get the fecal matter covered end of the stick, most times! Anyone want to trade me- My Valdada for a Barska or a Simmons? 🤣 D Crockett I have a BSA red dot up for trade. It works most of the time but remember to bring a hammer when you take it shooting. Geoff Glover Let's see... 3.5-18x50 IOR with Schott glass. 35mm tube for your BSA red dot. We can talk at the next Black Swamp!