To the Rex community:
I have been watching "Mark and Sam After Work" on YouTube. They're a husband and wife shooter/spotter team in, what appears to be, Western Australia doing some extreme range target shooting using everything from 22 LR to 375 CheyTac improved. Mark employs some equipment and techniques which are a little different than what was presented in Sniper 101.
Would like to hear/read some comments from Rex and everyone else about Mark's choice of SFP scopes for ELR shooting, methods he uses to achieve consistent rifle movement during recoil, etc..
SPF is fine if you keep it at the same magnification all the time.
I seen some of their vids. They did some pretty far away stuff with the .338 LM.
Hey, Pepelapiu
Yup, I understand that keeping magnification constant with SFP works with holdover graduations provided the magnification you're at is the one where those graduations are valid. What I don't get is why/how Mark is using those graduations in his Nightforce SFP scope at such low magnification and expecting to get repeatable and, dare I say, predictable results at such long range. Is he able to tell, precisely, when the scope is at 7X or 8X and then know, exactly, what the value of that MOA or 1/2 MOA mark on his reticle is?
I am CORNFUSED!
They make some great shots, though! 4000 meters with a 375 Gibs?! Whew, that's an accomplishment!
I'm no expert by any means. And I don't know his scope either. But wouldn't that reticle be at proper scale when in full power magnification?
But yeah, I agree, I don't know why he would prefer a SFP reticle. I do know he knows more than I do. But I'm better looking so that evens things out.
Maybe there are other features of that scope he likes.
A.R.M.,
Basically you have it right! John McQuay of 8541 Tactical did a segment a few weeks ago on using SFP scopes to estimate distance. As usual, the experts can explain it better than I!
https://youtu.be/rFc2q8pwCvo?list=PLA8F5OoMoTwEYiKwJokc0g0ksj0CxrFMP
Start at the three minute mark. Or better yet, watch the whole episode. There's a reason John and Rex are my go to guys.
Geoff,
Thanks for the explanation.
I did watch and listen to John's explanation and now I'm smelling what Mark's stepping in.
He must have figured out where his minute of angle values are valid at lower magnifications. I never considered that 1 m o a at max magnification ( or whatever magnification his scopes scale is valid) could be 2 m o a at half that magnification and so on, hmmmmm!
As I said, there's a reason Rex and John are my go to guys! :-)
My uneducated guess is that trying to extrapolate fractional hash marks at varying scope powers is a pita.
Do Mark and Sam use only SFP reticle scopes? Or just the one?
My guess is that he has an old scope he likes and he keeps using it.
The strelok pro ballistics calculator app has a SFP reticle formula where you enter the power you have selected and the app tells you the distance your hash mark or mildot is good for. Ffp is so much less complicated, but there are perks to both designs.
Plissken, what are the perks of SFP reticles? Aside from probably being cheaper, I mean.
I've seen Mark and Sam After Work and have seen some episodes where he mentions his use of SFP scopes. Maybe I'm wrong, but what I gathered from it is that being able to dial back the power to get an adequate field of view to actually see the target, and still be able to read the reticle markings (reticle stays the same size) is what made it useful at extreme long range. At 3500 or 4000 meters, some FFP scopes may not allow for the right combination of magnification to see the target and/or reticle size for accurately reading/holding over.
Hi Folks,
Well, just as it looks like we're figuring out the FFP vs SFP for long range conundrum, Mark and Sam threw another monkey in the wrench with Charlie TARAC.
Well, what in the H E double toothpicks is that?!
It looks like a periscope that mounts to a scope's objective and facilitates a greater range of elevation adjustment. I thought I heard Mark say he has a total of 300 minutes available with his set up. Did I hear that right?
It's challenging just to keep up with all the new gadgets being made available for long range shooting.
What do you think about TacomHq and Charlie: game changer or novelty?
Very interesting concept. I wonder if the bullet will be pointing nose on when it connects with the target. If not, it's a gadget, unless the bullet makers step up their game.
Still, getting that close at those distances is pretty impressive.
It would take a lot of testing at different distances to make me confident that the manual calculation of scaling of the reticle based on magnification would be correct. I'm not talking about human error in the calculation, but in the optical quality of design that implements the size changes as the magnification is changed. I'm talking about the internal light bending being perfectly proportional. Now if Rex said they _all_ work that way by nature of SFP, then I'll accept it. ;)
hey guys why dont you watch the entire episode Mark devoted to FFP vs SFP if this stuff blows your hair back so much.
I have been watching them for a while, the lack of pretense was waht drew me to them, as well as to Rex. It both men can shoot VERY well, and it goes to show that there are many ways that can work! I guess it all comes down to knowing the possibilities and deploying the equipment that works for what each of us is doing the way we are using it. Nothing can take the place of testing, trying, and developing our skills!